Grief and Glory

[00:00:00] Jane: I felt such a closeness with the Lord, and I knew He was my refuge. I knew that He would take care of us. I saw His hand upon us. I knew that, you know, He takes care of the widows and the orphans, you know, the fatherless, and He did. He totally took care of us, and I hope it spoke to the people around me.

[00:00:26] You know, that they understood that God really took care of us and maybe even saw they’re not actually safe over here in America either.

[00:00:34] Matt: This is the Relentless Pursuit podcast, where we hear stories from cross cultural workers on what it’s really like to be a missionary, the good, the bad, and the ugly.

[00:00:43] I think a lot of us, if we were to face a huge tragedy in our lives, whether it’s the loss of a family member. or some other devastating situation, we would want to kind of hide away, escape, run away, or find a really safe, comfortable, predictable place to live and to serve and to heal. But that’s not really what happened with our guest today.

[00:01:06] Jess: Yeah. I mean, Jane, if anything, she went the exact opposite way and she responded to the Lord for this calling that he’d had on her for a long, long time. And so today we’re going to hear about her current ministry, Jane’s current ministry in Southeast Asia, but we’re also going to hear the story of how the Lord led her to that.

[00:01:25] And it’s really not maybe what the typical missionary calling would look like. But we really get to kind of hear a little bit about what the Lord The highs and the lows, the challenges, and also the joys have been as she has continued to be obedient to God’s calling on her life. So let’s start off with our story today with Jane.

[00:01:44] Jane: So really, the Lord opened the door to enter a village and all the children came to our gate asking for English. And while that’s not. You Something I’m trained in, actually my teammate is a professional English teacher, not that you need that, but that is how we’ve entered into a community. And so we started teaching English, kind of like an English club.

[00:02:07] They wanted it for free and so we were like, okay, we wanted them to invest in it. So we found different ways that they could invest in their, Language learning, but we use that as an avenue to go into visit different homes of the students and just talk to the, to the moms mainly the moms in this cultural context.

[00:02:27] And we started just, yeah, building relationships. through that. And we found different ways to connect through former teammates. We’ve also been connected to different people. So, we are a team. Of course, we want to eventually plant a church, and that takes a lot of time and, and building those connections, relationships and building trust.

[00:02:49] Jess: Yeah. Yeah. So back up a little bit. You show up at a village and then all of a sudden these kids just come to your gate. Like, they’re not looking for food or money. They want English. They’re asking for English classes. Like, that’s not really what I expected you to start off with. Kind of give a little bit more context and, and why kids even want to learn English in Southeast Asia.

[00:03:10] Jane: Good question. So, so we were rent, we were looking for a place to live. So I had been discerning for a long time where to go. Finally landed into a city that is a up and coming tourist destination.

[00:03:24] And so as I was going from place to place, praying, okay, God, show us the right house. The Lord had shown me the salt fields. And this particular house was near some salt fields and so this is the house, it was two houses joining together and so we were able to rent those houses and get in right with the people group that we were hoping to serve and, and learn from.

[00:03:51] So yeah, so why do they want to learn English? They want to learn because of the tourism. It’s, it’s increase of income, basically. So like, if you’re a tuk tuk driver and you know English, you’re going to get double the pay.

[00:04:06] Jess: Right. Right. I mean, I was going to say, like, so do you, had you developed any sort of like program or school or announced it or anything, or like, they were just like, Oh, Americans moved in. They must want to teach us English. We should like go for them. Is that kind of how it works?

[00:04:24] Jane: Pretty much. I mean, they just see foreigners, like anybody from the West, and it’s like, oh, you know your language really well. I mean, there’s a lot of people teaching English in this country, and it’s, you know, the locals are teaching English, and they do it really well, but the differences are pronunciation.

[00:04:43] So, unfortunately, it’s kind of sad because I have no training, but I was thankful that my teammate. Yeah, actually is trained in it. So I think we gave them high quality, you know, English. And I used my writing skills to like I made a little book and I did it in their language and in English to help them reiterate what they learned.

[00:05:05] So, you know, like our different skills come together and I could see how God put us together because we were so different. She’s actually not from America. She’s from another country. And because of that, you could just see how God put us together to complement one another.

[00:05:22] Matt: Yeah. Yeah. Can you tell us a little bit about the people group that you’re serving among? Is this a animist or a Buddhist or a Hindu people group you’re serving with?

[00:05:32] Jane: Yeah. So I would say maybe folk Islam. Okay. Because the underbelly of the, the country is animism. And then you just layer on Hinduism, Buddhism, and then There’s a, there’s a variety, right? Yeah. A little bit of everything. A little bit of everything. But certainly, I would say animism Yeah, focus on what it is.

[00:05:58] Jess: So that’s how you kind of started your ministry, right? Right off the bat, you’re teaching English, you’re engaging with moms in their homes and stuff like that. Is that continued to be kind of like your primary ministry or are there other things that you’ve gotten to kind of get involved in in the community?

[00:06:12] Jane: Well, we started teaching English at another school that put us in another village and that lasted a little while, but I realized that God was really calling us to just stay where you are. It is so hard. It’s so hard because it’s not like we can just go out and hang out for four hours every day. People are working, you know, they have busy lives.

[00:06:35] They’re at their homes because they work at home. They’re fishermen and fishermen’s wives. So they mend the nets and so we can go and talk, but there’s, yeah, we can’t just sit out for four hours and talk to people. It’s not quite like Africa, you know. So it’s a little different. And so, I was doing some other things, but it wasn’t specifically engaging with people, but I’m also.

[00:06:59] Still learning language. I’m really like advanced low level right now, which is like, I want to be up. I wish I could get to superior, but so there’s still a lot of that too. So both of us were learning language and we were finding tutors kind of in our area. So we did a lot of that as well. And and I was able to get a couple of tutors from this people group. So I was able to really get deeper and ask questions about the culture and learn more.

[00:07:28] Matt: Now, is there one language or have you had to learn several languages to be proficient in relationships and communicating there?

[00:07:36] Jane: I, so it’s learning one language, but then there’s other language that they use. So like they use a different language. Pronouns are different. There there’s spiritual language is different. And so it is learning some other vocabulary that. Maybe the main people group don’t know. Yeah.

[00:07:56] Jess: So it’s interesting, you know, with folk Islam, like you were saying with kind of just like these layers of different traditions and different beliefs and ideas kind of all piled on top of each other, maybe not always super logically.

[00:08:09] Like, how do you bring spiritual conversations about our God and the Bible and all of that kind of thing into these sorts of places? With people who have these kinds of worldview about what religion is.

[00:08:22] Jane: Well, one thing I keep praying about and I try to work on is asking good questions. To not, I want to share of course, but learning to listen well. And listen, what do they really believe? Because every person is going to be different. They’re just like in Christianity. So, so I’d really try to listen and ask good questions. And, oh, okay. So you have been learning about Moses. So tell me more about Moses. What do you know? What do you know about Moses?

[00:08:53] And there’s been, I’ve had some dialogue where they’re like, well, why do you believe? Why do you believe in Jesus? Because I usually introduce myself like I follow, I’m a follower of Jesus. I don’t use the word Christian because it’s, it has some meaning behind it that I don’t want to be associated with, right?

[00:09:13] If that makes sense. So I try to avoid that term. I try to avoid terms that are going to be right off the bat a confrontation. So I try to explain what it’s like. And in those conversations, I’ve found out beliefs that they have about us. Like, if they see a cross, They see that as, we worship a cross.

[00:09:36] That’s idol worship. I’m like, no, actually we don’t, we don’t worship a cross. So these are the kind of conversations, like the little tiny conversations that have happened. Especially with my tutors. To try to explain what we actually believe, because I don’t know what they have been told about what we believe.

[00:09:58] But getting to, to the cross, getting to the, the, the meat and potatoes of, you know, what is, what do we believe I, I try to go back. I want to go back to the prophets. All the prophets were telling about Jesus. And so often I’m trying to get into those conversations about, okay, let’s go back to the beginning. Let’s, let’s start with Adam and Eve.

[00:10:24] Jess: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That’s so good. That’s, that must be so tricky though, because I mean, we literally have songs like, Oh, the wonderful cross. Right. But then to have to explain like, no, that’s just a symbol. It’s not the actual thing that we’re worshiping. Right. I mean, that must be, I can see how that would be really tricky in certain contexts. Right. Right.

[00:10:44] Jane: So, even a building with a cross on it, they, they’re not going to want to walk in that building. That’s like, Ooh, they see that as pagan. And so just, just like the temples, right, the, the Buddhist temples around. So that’s kind of the context I’m working in trying to it’s like, I don’t want to disassociate myself from the main people group. But there, there’s quite a difference when you’re working with a minority people group. Yeah.

[00:11:10] Matt: So the majority people group then would be a Buddhist majority? Right. Okay. Right. And then this is a Muslim majority people group within a larger Buddhist culture and with folk Islamic sensibilities, I guess.

[00:11:25] Jane: So, yeah, it’s a minority Islamic group.

[00:11:28] Matt: So do you feel like the, the folk aspect, you know, that includes both probably the belief in spirits and demons and other spiritual powers, does that make people more receptive to some of the elements we see in scripture about spiritual realities?

[00:11:49] Jane: Oh, certainly. Oh, it’s so much easier to have people spiritual, like conversations about the spiritual world in, in this nation. So, that’s really easy in terms of, I’ll give an example. Like, if someone becomes really ill, so the belief could be that they are, they would actually say the word Satan or an evil spirit has entered that person. And actually one of the things that was hard to get across is like, well, who has more power? God or Satan? And that was a hard, yeah, one girl I asked and she couldn’t answer.

[00:12:28] Matt: Really? Wow.

[00:12:31] Jane: So they really see the, the power of evil more so than the power of God. Yeah.

[00:12:37] Jess: You know, a minute ago, you said it kind of really offhand, but you mentioned how it’s a little different from Africa and that you can’t just like sit around and chat all day long. And you said it kind of casually, but you also kind of said it sort of like, you know, what sitting around all day in Africa is kind of like that. Tell us a little bit about what all that was about.

[00:12:57] Jane: Well, so I used to serve in Rwanda before I went to Southeast Asia and it is different. I mean, if you go to somebody’s home eight hours, six hours of sitting around and talking is really normal. And if I invite somebody over, it was the same way. So, so yeah, it is, it is a little bit different. There’s some similarities in the cultures, but yeah, certainly I, I remember being there and, and just the long conversations that you have and it was beautiful.

[00:13:29] Matt: Well, everybody that’s on, been on this podcast has usually told us a little bit about their journey to get to where they are. And I think there’s all sorts of stories, but I have a feeling yours is a bit different than some of the other guests we’ve had on. So can you kind of start at the beginning and tell us how you ended up serving overseas both in Africa and now in Southeast Asia?

[00:13:53] Jane: Well, I’m one of those crazy ones. I actually prayed for God to send me.

[00:13:57] Matt: Wow. So you prayed

[00:14:00] Jess: they’re one of those like anywhere but Africa. Yeah, anywhere but Africa. You weren’t one of those .

[00:14:05] Jane: Actually, Africa was where I always wanted to go. Uhhuh . Wow. So yeah, my pastor kind of helped me discern that he is like, where have you always wanted to go? Africa? And then the Lord opened up those doors. Mm. Right after. So, yeah. So for me, I always wanted to serve overseas, but my husband, not so much, and he, he was on his own journey of drawing closer to God. And it turned out that in 2011, he got he got brain cancer. It was stage four. It was his third time having cancer.

[00:14:36] He had leukemia at five years old. Then later on in life, he had testicular cancer. So this was the third. And it was It was heavy, and he was going down really fast. So went through that and then he died the next year in 2012. And through that, I saw my husband draw so close to the Lord. It was amazing everywhere he went, every, like, hospital, every nurse, he was just like saying how grateful he was and telling them about Jesus.

[00:15:12] I mean, I was like, is this my husband? Like I had prayed for him for so long and just for him to have that close relationship. Often I took my kids to the church alone and it was so hard, you know, cause I wanted him there. I wanted him to be the spiritual leader of our home. And so, but he always supported me, and it was just in that time that he, he became a really strong believer.

[00:15:38] He knew where he was going, and I did too. And after he died, I was like, I just want to be in heaven. You know, I just want to be there with him. And Yeah. So in that time, I I was like, Lord, send me, like, I’m still here. I’m still living. And I could just see the, the like we have such a short life on this earth.

[00:16:07] And I was like, I’m still here. Yeah, send me. I’ve always wanted to go. I went on my first mission trip when I was 14 years old, went to Guatemala. And I was like, yeah, my heart was always abroad. And so, I started praying. And then like I was saying, I talked to my pastor. Then the doors opened up I wanted to work with widows and orphans because of what I had gone through.

[00:16:35] And the Lord opened a door in Rwanda working with a Rwandan. He also, he lost 35 family members in the genocide against Tutsi. And so the Lord led me there. And I, I went there and I got to be with the widows and orphans and lots of different people and there was a lot of tragedy there. You could just see it.

[00:16:59] Like, I remember a day where I just saw a woman running without clothes on and I was like, what happened? What happened? And I came home and we had a houseworker who helped us and I was like, I don’t understand. And she goes, Oh dear, don’t you understand what happened here? And then my heart dropped because I’m like, of course, I know, like, millions of people died here in 1994.

[00:17:26] And she’s like, yeah, people just, this was 20 years later that this happened when I was there. She’s like, yeah, sometimes people just take off their clothes and run because they’re back in the trauma of what happened in the genocide. So this really just, it, it was really hard there. Yeah. Yeah. And just walking alongside people, and there was just trauma after trauma, not only from the genocide, but poverty and so many other things.

[00:17:55] And during that time, I was like, Lord, I don’t understand. Why did you send me to a nation where there are so many Christians? That was the part I didn’t understand. I had gone through perspectives on the world Christian movement and, and, and I really wanted to go where the gospel had not been shared.

[00:18:14] Now there was a lot of need for discipleship there, but but yeah, the Lord started working and in me and I started praying. I sat down with my kids one night, it was like, let’s pray, like, where would God have us go? I had already been talking with pioneers and realized the need to have like a missions agency to have that kind of support.

[00:18:37] And it was that night that I heard the nation on my heart and I didn’t know where it was. And I had to go to the world map and I was like, Oh, it’s in Southeast Asia. And it was another nation that had been through a lot of, a lot of trauma. So, so that’s, that’s really how the Lord led me and I really wanted to go to an Unreached People group, and the Lord confirmed that as well. So. Yeah. Yeah, that’s been the journey.

[00:19:08] Jess: So kind of backing up a little bit. So I mean, when you say the Lord’s, like, spoke, like, was it kind of going, how did the logistics of that happen a little bit? Like, did you like hear it? Like was, like, was his handwriting on the wall, like?

[00:19:26] Jane: It was in my spirit that I heard the name of the nation. Oh. Then after that, this is so cool. So a week later I was going to my house fellowship and I didn’t get the memo that they canceled and the people that were the house that I went to, it was a Filipino couple and I told them all that had happened. I was like, I heard this nation on my heart and I, and I didn’t know them well.

[00:19:51] They had just come to Rwanda and they said, Jane, no way. We just came from that nation and we have been praying for missionaries to be sent there. Let’s have your kids over and we want to tell you all about it. Oh my gosh.

[00:20:06] Matt: Yeah. That’s a confirmation.

[00:20:08] Jane: That was, that was the way that God worked and confirmed.

[00:20:11] Jess: Right. And it’s so nice that, I mean, I feel like a lot of people have that kind of confirmation journey sort of happens over the span of weeks and months and years, but like literally That evening you like went over to someone’s house and God was like, in case it wasn’t clear the first time, let me just kind of, you know, really emphasize this point for you.

[00:20:31] So how long did it take? So from when you first got that like word in your heart, okay, this is where you’re going to go next to when you like actually landed in the country, about how long did that take?

[00:20:43] Jane: So that was the spring of 2017. And then I left Rwanda and I went on a survey trip. January of 2018. And then I ended up in country, August, 2018, so not that long, not that long, not that long at all. Nice.

[00:20:59] Jess: I mean, that’s, yes. And then COVID happened. Right, right. So, I mean, that’s such like a huge transition. I mean, you gave the one example of like, you know, spending six or eight hours on someone’s floor versus just like, you know, an hour or two, right? I mean, how has it been kind of switching from one third culture to a completely different one?

[00:21:18] Jane: It’s been really hard, and I would say, like, the First Nation, I’ve talked to other people, too, who have had the same journey, and the First Nation that you’re sent to, it’s like, oh, your heart, it’s so big and full for that particular nation.

[00:21:32] So it was really hard. Because that was, yeah, Rwanda just has a very special place because the Lord really ministered to me there and the people ministered to me, the widows who spoke into my life. And I was in a very tender spot. It was only two years after my husband died. So yeah, so there, I have a very special place that’s a special place to me.

[00:21:57] And so moving over where people. It was just a different, very different environment, not as welcoming to missionaries. I think that was really hard as well, really working through my identity because I was always very open, Oh, I’m a missionary. And they always, they call them Mzungus, white people like, Oh, the Mzungus always come to do good things, whereas in the nation I’m in now, that’s, that’s, that’s You know, foreigners who come, they’re not all up to good things, and they’re, so I had to really work through that and really adjust to a, you know, in Rwanda, they love mzungus, and they run up to you, and you become kind of like a celebrity, which is not good.

[00:22:45] Yeah. It’s, it’s not a good thing. And so the nation, the next nation I went to very different where you’re not like, Oh, welcome. And we’re so happy to have you. It’s not the same embrace.

[00:22:58] Matt: Yeah. So going through losing your husband and then sensing this call to what you’d felt earlier on in your life, obviously, but then kind of reaching a place where you could follow through on that, what was the response of.

[00:23:14] People in your life to this decision because I would imagine a lot of people that go through this type of loss kind of want to cocoon and and Take control of their life again and not go into a situation in which it’s chaotic and uncertain Because you’ve already been through that so I’m interested to hear what some of the feedback and thoughts were from people in your life who loved you and cared about you when you shared this dream with them.

[00:23:40] Jane: It was a mix. So I did have a lot of people who were very concerned. The concern was about safety. It was always about safety.

[00:23:49] Matt: Because now you’re a single woman and you’re going on your own, right?

[00:23:54] Jane: And you know, I was, I was very naive and But I had a lot of faith. I mean, I know at that time, I must have had just a lot of faith because really yeah, in the world’s eyes, it was probably looked pretty stupid and not very wise, you know, but but yeah, I did it, you know, and I know that it was just, I, I felt such a closeness with the Lord and I knew He was my refuge.

[00:24:22] I knew that He would take care of us. I. I knew that he, he takes care of the widows and the orphans, you know, the fatherless. And he did. He totally took care of us. Yeah. That faith of just knowing that, and I hope, you It spoke to the people around me. You know, that they understood that God really took care of us and maybe even saw they’re not actually safe over here in America either.

[00:24:52] Matt: Yeah.

[00:24:53] Jane: Like if we really understand, you know.

[00:24:56] Matt: You’re not safe from loss and grief and all those things as well. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. I think a lot of people probably consider when they think about how God has prepared them for serving him overseas, they think about their training, their education. If they went to Bible college or seminary or took perspectives class, I think just as much as people’s life journey that he brings them on that can prepare them in even more meaningful ways for being fruitful for him.

[00:25:27] And I think your story is an example of that is it probably has. Open doors of opportunity and even a sense of being able to meet people at a level that maybe you wouldn’t have been able to had you not gone through what you went through. Is there any examples or things you can tell us about that from your own experience?

[00:25:48] Jane: Yeah, for sure. Like in, in Rwanda and where I’m currently serving, I’ve sat, I’ve sat around a lot of people dying or who have lost, just lost someone. Yeah, and I, and they don’t, when I, yeah, it’s hard because I do pray for healing but I haven’t seen them be healed. And I think when I see especially this people group and I sit beside them and they have the Quran, you know, next to their head and they just don’t have any hope, real hope of heaven, that they will go to heaven. They don’t know. They’re so afraid of dying. And so, yeah, so I’ve seen that and I’ve gotten involved with some trauma healing ministries as well. And I’m hoping to bring that to this people group at some point of what the Bible has to say about grief. Because the Bible has so much to say about grief and lament and forgiveness. There’s so much that happens when a family loses a loved one.

[00:26:54] Matt: Yeah.

[00:26:55] Jane: But the Bible has a lot to say about it.

[00:26:58] Matt: Well, and there’s a sense too when you are with people who have lost a family member, where you can authentically say, I know how you feel. I’ve been there. And not all of us can say that about losing a spouse.

[00:27:12] So that gives you a sense of the ability to relate to people maybe that God has in his grace given you. Through your own grief and your own loss. So, that’s, that’s really amazing. Tell us a little bit about your kids and their experience cause this is, I’m sure was another factor in feeling this call from the Lord, but recognizing that you’re not the only one who it’s going to have an impact on.

[00:27:37] Jane: Right. So, my children they did not want to go. That was really hard. They did not have the same excitement I had. They didn’t, and I realized how hard that must have been for them, that I was pulling them away from all the people that had journeyed with us through yeah, through his sickness. And I remember, yeah, there were just so many children and adults as well who walked with them during that time, but they ended up loving Rwanda.

[00:28:11] They, so by the time we left, they didn’t want to leave. And then we ended up going again to Southeast Asia when they were, you know, Teenagers, which is not advised, but we did it, and it was really hard, and I’ve made a lot of decisions that, you know, I’m sure they don’t agree with, and that’s been really hard, and I just keep going back to the calling.

[00:28:39] Actually, that’s the one thing that’s really anchored me of like, okay, like it is a hard walk when you pick up your cross and follow Jesus. It’s not meant to be easy. The road is really hard. And and so I just, I know I made mistakes. I know I made a lot of decisions that were painful and hurtful to the kids and hopefully, yeah, whatever mistakes I made, they can forgive me.

[00:29:06] And yeah, and I hope one day they’ll see the bigger picture of, you know, the wilderness experience to the promised land.

[00:29:16] Jess: So is that I mean, you’ve been in country now for like three or four years, I think. And so I guess that’s a process your kids are still going through, still adjusting, still kind of getting settled in. Is that correct? Right.

[00:29:29] Jane: They’re in university now. Okay. And one thing I didn’t mention is when COVID happened, the Lord brought us back to the USA for three years. And during that time, I was, we, we moved again and we moved to an area where this people group lives in the U. S. And so that was hard. It was really hard.

[00:29:50] They’ve had to say a lot of goodbyes, not only to their dad, but just to different communities and friends. They have friends around the world, but they’re not here. So it’s, it’s been really hard on the kids and yeah, TCKs, third culture kids have, they have their own journey and it is a hard one. So I appreciate all the people here, especially in the U. S. who have really walked alongside them through the messiness. Yeah.

[00:30:22] Jess: I really appreciate that. You know, it’s not like your kids are all grown and, you know, happy and settled and have everything figured out now. I mean, you’re still kind of in the midst of it that you’re sharing that like, yeah, like not every decision, not everything went perfectly, right. There have been a lot of things that have been tough on them. I’m curious, especially for those who I’m sure have kids and are listening to this, like, what are some of the things that you think have helped your kids thrive or adjust better in those places where they’ve done well?

[00:30:51] Jane: Well, hands down to all the schools, we have had, they’ve had some teachers, especially in Rwanda, like one teacher was walking with my daughter every week. And they just invested, they loved the kids. They were missionaries themselves too. And then we also had Pioneer teammates who really like, they just loved them. And they would invite us over for dinner. They would just really, like one of my teammates was like, would it be okay if I like mentored your daughter?

[00:31:26] And I was like, sure, that’s fine. That’s totally up to her. And she did. So, just real intentionality and you need that because you’re in a foreign land where they can’t communicate with with the local people, especially as teenagers. They can maybe get around on a tuk tuk, but they can’t, you know, have any deep conversations. So it’s, you know, those teammates are really important. Now,

[00:31:52] Matt: you did mention earlier that your teammate is not American. So can you tell us a little bit about what that looks like is serving side by side with someone from another culture. And so you have all of those cultural differences in communication and understanding and perspective. And then you combine that, combine that with being in a cross cultural context that’s different for both of you.

[00:32:18] Jane: I love it though. Because we’re coming from two different sides of the world and We, yeah, I mean, of course, she communicates in English, so that, that makes it great, like, she really knows English well, so we didn’t have that barrier but, yeah, so we learned a lot about each other.

[00:32:36] She comes from an Asian country, and so she was able to, It was so much fun. Like, she taught me things that are really, like, real practical things. Like, I learned how to hand wash my clothes. She taught me how to buy fish, how to cook fish. She was, yeah, like, I don’t really like fish heads. And so it was like, here, you can have the fish head.

[00:32:56] And, and she’d be like, yes. So, so yeah, cross cultural work, it’s really hard. Yes. There’s a lot of miscommunication and lots of things to work through, but it’s also beautiful because it shows like in Islam, they have the ummah, which is like the big community and they have all these commonalities of speaking Arabic and worshiping in the same style.

[00:33:20] But for us, we have the body of Christ. And so it’s beautiful how God put us together and it shows. The love of God reaching across the nations coming together to, for this little tiny people group, you know, in this country.

[00:33:36] Matt: What are the types of opportunities and roles and skills and passions that you feel like would make a difference there and that God could use for his glory?

[00:33:48] Jane: So many opportunities. I mean, it’s limitless. Yeah. Right? Because there’s just so many opportunities because the nation itself, I mean, it’s like maybe 2 to 5 percent Christian. Mm hmm. So, very little. So, yeah. I mean, teaching English, obviously, that’s the door that opened for us. I’ve always I’ve been praying for business people as well.

[00:34:13] Visas are always a challenge. It’s a constantly changing environment. But business is a great way because we’re trying to build a relationship. So any kind of business that would cater, you know, specifically to this people group or provide jobs. I mean, people need jobs. And then, yeah, I mean, whatever skills people have.

[00:34:32] it can be used in so many different ways. Like, if somebody is really gifted in evangelism, well, that’s certainly needed. I mean, we’re trying to have spiritual conversations with people. If somebody’s pastoral, well, people who come out of Islam need a lot of pastoral care. A lot of just sitting down and saying, you supporting them through the really hard when, and we don’t want them to get kicked out of their village, but they are going to face different types of persecution.

[00:34:59] So it really takes the whole body of Christ. So whatever skills people have, there’s, it seems like there’s always an opportunity that could unfold.

[00:35:09] Matt: Yeah. Yeah. Now, are you working with or alongside a majority culture church there, or is there really not much in the way of a majority culture church to partner with?

[00:35:22] Jane: It’s happening. There’s a lot of people trying to mobilize the, the majority church to reach out and to start praying. I mean, that’s the first step, get people praying for this people group, but there’s, it is a cross cultural jump. And I think that the, the local churches have so much in their own families that it’s hard to make that cross cultural jump unless the Lord, you know, puts a burden on their heart for them.

[00:35:51] Matt: And in some ways, that’s what you’re there for, right? Is to kind of build a bridge between these two very different cultures. One, probably some of whom were former Buddhists and now have become Christian, and you’re encouraging them to now reach out. to Muslim background people. So just, it’s not as straightforward as it may seem at the outset.

[00:36:16] Right. Right. One of the things we like to do with our guests is ask them if there’s anything they’ve been reading or listening to or watching that has been inspiring them or challenging them that they can share with our listeners. Anything that you can think of?

[00:36:30] Jane: Okay. I’m thinking of I started reading one of Watchman Lee’s books.

[00:36:35] Matt: Is it Watchman Lee? Watchman Nee.

[00:36:38] Jane: Nee. Yeah. Yeah. I started, yeah, I started reading one of his books and just about, we’ve got to go through some really hard stuff. We’ve got to really go through the hard if we’re ever going to be at the, at the point of being able to disciple someone else. That that is part of it. He kind of reiterates it again and again in very different, more eloquent words, but that’s what I’ve been taking from reading his book.

[00:37:13] Jess: So Jane didn’t really talk about this specifically, but I think kind of there’s sort of this underlying sense of how there was sort of perfect timing for each of the things that happened in her life. She mentioned, you know, she’d always wanted to become a missionary, but it, you know, in the beginning and.

[00:37:32] When she first got married, it was just not the right time. And you would think just a year or two after her husband passed away would not be the right time to go to Rwanda. Right. But that ended up being a good time for her, even though her kids didn’t want to go, they ended up doing really well there.

[00:37:46] And so I think the way she shared how the Lord led her at the right time in the right direction for each little step is such an amazing testimony of how God has been so faithful. To Jane and to others like her in guiding her to the mission field and beyond.

[00:38:06] Matt: Yeah. Yeah. And just the fact that she was open to each of these doors as they opened and responding to the Lord’s call at each of these intersections.

[00:38:16] It’s really a testimony of, of God’s grace. And I think she, she talks in very, Maybe light hearted ways about this, but you can tell there’s really an underlying depth there from her experience that has really caused her to be fruitful there. Now, some of the things that she noticed and mentioned in the conversation were some of the challenges that her children have faced.

[00:38:37] Definitely she was not the only one who was called. Her children had to respond to the call. that God gave her. And so TCKs, third culture children, missionary kids, are something that’s really important to pioneers and our teams here invest a lot in caring for them. And so I do want to point you to a previous episode of the podcast in the last season with Taylor, who is a TCK serving in Japan with her family and is now In in graduate school to become a counselor, and so we talked to her last season about some of the challenges that TKs face.

[00:39:13] Also in the show notes, we’ll have some links to Pioneers Ministries to Vulnerable Women, which is something that was really close to the heart of Jane and some other articles and resources about ministry opportunities in Southeast Asia.

[00:39:27] Jess: There’s also a bonus story, if you want to hear a little bit more about Jane’s life in Southeast Asia and just kind of how she’s connected with local believers there, please check that out in the link in the show notes.

[00:39:42] Thanks for following us on this episode of the Relentless Pursuit podcast. Our goal is to make missions accessible to show that it’s not just reserved for elite super Christians. If you want to be involved, Just go to pioneers. org slash start and answer a few questions. We have a team who would love to help you discern your calling and what your next steps might be.

[00:40:01] Matt: At Pioneers, we love to partner with local churches and send teams to people groups with little or no access to the gospel. Keep up with what God is doing by following us on Instagram, Facebook, X, and YouTube, all at PioneersUSA, one word. Or visit pioneers. org. Thanks for listening.

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