A Church That Sends Together ...

[00:00:00] Dusty: If you don’t just constantly beat the drum of this, this gospel that forms us is also what sends us out. If it’s just not a regular part of what you are, what you will become is just a very inwardly oriented organization. And churches again are no different than anything else. You’ll be mostly focused on, who’s there and not on who’s not there.

[00:00:23] Matt: This is the Relentless Pursuit podcast, where we hear stories from cross cultural workers on what it’s really like to be a missionary, the good, the bad, and the ugly.

[00:00:32] Jess: So usually we get to hear so much from our missionaries from the going side, right, but there’s a whole nother half to that equation that we don’t really get to hear from here on our podcast. And so we have a very special episode where today we get to hear and explore the perspective of those who are sending.

[00:00:52] Matt: Yes, exactly. I think that this is just a reminder that Pioneers officially does not send any missionaries. We facilitate churches, and we help churches send missionaries. But we believe that according to scripture, that the local church is the sender.

[00:01:09] And so that changes our role in our relationship with, with people that come through that might be like, Hey, I want to go. I’m ready to go. And we’re like, Hey, who’s your church? Who’s sending you? Because you can’t go unless you’re sent. And our role is to help facilitate that, but you need a church. So that’s, that’s why it’s so important to get the perspective of a pastor and understand the sacrifices that churches make.

[00:01:32] to send people and the cost that they pay to have high quality people leave the church and go thousands of miles away where they are no longer able to contribute, at least locally, but can contribute globally to what God is doing through the work of that church. So, welcome to this conversation. We think you’ll enjoy it.

[00:01:52] Dusty: Yeah. So Dusty Thompson, I’ve been at, planted Redeemer Church here in Lubbock, Texas. And almost exactly 17 years ago, which is kind of crazy. And before that I’d been doing college ministry at another church here in Lubbock that actually planted us. I did that for over nine years. I was doing college and missions both.

[00:02:11] It was kind of a hybrid position. And so you’re, you know, you’re looking at, you know, over 25 years in one way or another. Kind of in the game here in Lubbock. So yeah, I’ve been doing that. And you know, one of the things we’ve, one of our passions from the very beginning, even before we started Redeemer, that we wanted to send 20 goers to the unreached, and we wanted to plant 20 churches domestically by the year 2020.

[00:02:34] And some of that was maybe a little overly ambitious, but it was a goal that we set. We didn’t know how to do any of that, but we just wanted to. It was something that we wanted to not only reach people locally, but we wanted to send. So that’s a little bit about us.

[00:02:45] Matt: That’s great. Do you feel like this is a vision that you had to really pass to the people in the church? Or were people already kind of primed in because of planting the church? Maybe you already had kind of a missional perspective. So people were already accustomed to that type of approach to to church and to serving God.

[00:03:03] Dusty: That’s a great question. Well, here’s how I’d say it. I mean, everybody that’s coming to the church that you’re reaching, I mean, a lot of new believers, a whole lot of things like that, don’t have any context for it at all, in any kind.

[00:03:15] So, they don’t know. Now, I would say that the core of people that planted with us very much were aligned, and that’s even the kind of church we were trying to plant, be one trying to reach people in our city, but then, You know, it’d be ascending church from the very beginning, but the vast majority of folks, they would not have had any context for that.

[00:03:34] So you know, it’s like everything else, like you’re trying to teach the Bible and you’re also trying to instill these values in the folks that are involved. Now what I will say is that I think the thing that makes the most sense right out of the, you know, right out of the gate, I mean, it’s on all of our stuff from the very beginning We want to be a gospel centered missional family.

[00:03:53] That’s our kind of our mission of what we seek to be. And if you buy into those values, that the gospel of Jesus is what not only converts us, but it’s actually how we grow and how we change and we want to become a family that’s formed by the same gospel message, then you know, we also, another implication and outflow of the gospel is the missional component.

[00:04:13] And if somebody buys into all that. But then they’re going to say, okay, it makes sense that God went looking for me and he, he sent people to tell me and, and that’s what I need to do now with my neighbors and friends and family, that there’s already a hook to hang that on. And so really the only other part is just a logical outflow of that is what I found.

[00:04:31] And it just all makes sense. It’s the same impulse that would say, I want to reach my neighbor. And there are people in this region that need churches to do the same thing in their communities. And there are people that are among the unreached that have never even heard anything about Jesus at all, you know, well over a billion that hundreds of people groups that have no access to the, the good news that you just believe them.

[00:04:55] And wouldn’t it make sense that we would want to to prioritize that as a church? Not, not all of us are going to go, but wouldn’t it make sense that there’d be a solid proportion of us that would want to go and then the rest of us would be participating as senders to that? Yeah. And I think it all, I think it all logically follows and sometimes I’ll even say this that just as one last note on this, occasionally from people that are, you know, very passionate about, you know, quote unquote missions to the, to the unreached, that sometimes there can be a little bit of recall towards initiatives that are geared towards reaching people here in our city.

[00:05:28] And I’ll just highlight to folks that may be, be struggling sometimes with us resourcing and funding things here locally of, Hey, this is all the same impulse. It really is. I don’t see any difference between reaching our neighbor near and reaching people far that need, need need to the same hope of the gospel that we’ve believed in.

[00:05:47] So it all flows from the same place. And even if there’s some unique callings and, and roles that people have.

[00:05:54] Jess: So that’s really interesting point that you bring up just kind of this. idea of, yeah, that totally comes from that same heart of wanting to love our neighbor, to love the Lord with all of our heart and soul, whether that’s exemplified by the way that we reach out to the person who lives next to us or the person who lives far outside on the other side of the world, right?

[00:06:12] But I think there’s definitely a certain tension to how you model that, to the way that you’re leading the church, to how you’re having different programs and all these kinds of things at the church. So how do you sort of direct? the church body to understand where, like, where that balance is. Is it just every man to themselves and you just have to decide on your own or is there something that the church is kind of doing to help you understand, like, okay, this is kind of how we’ve divvied up our church’s resources and our people and money and all those sorts of things.

[00:06:44] Dusty: That is a wonderful question. And I feel that tension all the time. I mean, you’re, you’re really capturing something that we feel like, I don’t know that we ever solve that, that it’s a constant tension. And here’s what I’d say broadly, that I think just in general, churches are no different than any other organization is organizations are inherently conservative.

[00:07:03] What I mean by that is there’s a, just a change resistance. And. That, that’s true for, I mean, like a family unit has its own way of doing things. And when there’s a change that’s introduced to it, there’s going to be a resistance to it. And businesses are that way. Churches most certainly are that way. And that’s, that was a tough thought for me to wrap my mind around when you’re a church planner.

[00:07:23] You’re like, that’s not us. That’s those established churches that have been around 50 years or a hundred years, which you found out is really quick. You establish your own ways of doing things and churches are inherently conservative, change resistant. And. Yeah. I would say also just inwardly oriented and the default if you don’t just constantly beat the drum of this, this gospel that forms us is also what sends us out.

[00:07:48] If it’s just not a regular part of what you are, what you will become is just a very inwardly oriented organization and churches again are no different than anything else. You’ll be mostly focused on who’s there and not on who’s not there and that’s a good thing. It’s not a wrong thing. You’ll find lots of the Bible about about us growing as disciples and becoming more like Jesus. And we do want to highlight that. And all I would add, I wouldn’t even say but to that, I would just say, and one of the things of what it means to be like Jesus and be a disciple of Jesus is, is being being sent. And it was even that that great commission given to us was That we want to learn to obey all that he’s taught us.

[00:08:29] And then we want to make disciples to the ends of the earth. And that’s, that’s being like Jesus is caring about the unreached and those that, that don’t currently believe in Jesus. So I just think that it’s, it’s something that is you’re going to constantly have to come back to it because nothing in your church is going to naturally drift that way, that beating the drum of mission.

[00:08:47] And I’ll even say this too, that is an additional thought is that, I think it’s the thing that we’ve gotten more pushback over our 17 years than any other thing. It’s not like global missions per se, but just this impulse that we’ve had that we feel like flows from God’s heart of reach is way more than any of our theological distinctives that there’s just a bit of resistance sometimes for gearing things and money and resources for people that aren’t here.

[00:09:14] So that’s broadly and then more specifically that I think it’s just something that we try to highlight. Regularly, like our, and just try to say it, think about different tiers of locally here, our neighbor, and then domestic church planning, which would be regionally, and then ends of the earth, where there’s our specific focus is among those that have not.

[00:09:36] They have very little or no access to the gospel message. And so it’s just something that we have to constantly, we lift up, we pray for one of our goers monthly in our services. We have like right now we’re in the middle of what we call Govember, where we have just a special focus on the unreached and and just try to keep that value in front of the church and just focused ways and almost like ways that are rhythmic with the calendar and whatnot.

[00:10:00] Jess: Yeah. Govember. I love that. Yeah, that’s a fun one.

[00:10:05] Matt: I was, I was thinking about too was this kind of balance between sending or being sent and then also feeling the call of God on your heart individually. So and what I mean by that is we see historically that some people have felt personally called by God and then they go to those around them to kind of get that call discerned and confirmed and then to be formally sent.

[00:10:31] And others kind of have to be told by someone. I think you might be a good fit for this. I think God might be calling you. So I’m wondering what your experience has been in, in sending, like, are you primarily talking to people that already have an inclination from God? He’s working on them. He’s, he’s calling them.

[00:10:51] He’s putting situations in their lives that are bringing these things to their awareness. Or are you proactively talking to people that you think God might be working in and they need that confirmation instead of just waiting for them to come to you as the church leader?

[00:11:08] Dusty: Well, that’s a great question too. I love these. So, my experience has been is that this is a years long process that involves both. So, you gotta keep in mind, again, because we feel a responsibility as the leadership of the church just to cast this vision. Hopefully something college students are going to hear, which are going to be great.

[00:11:28] Overwhelmingly, our most mobilizable, is that a word? Group that we’ve got, and hopefully that they’re going to be hearing regularly that we have three hopes for their life, you know, for post college. One would be that they would be an all in church member in whatever city that the Lord plants them.

[00:11:43] And we think that’s a beautiful thing. Two, that they would be part of a domestic church plant flowing out from Redeemer, that we like to plant churches in our region and consider joining one of those as we plant them, or three, that you would be a goer and you’d go somewhere and work among the unreached.

[00:11:58] And so we just say, Hey, look, either way, all in for Jesus, wherever he plants you. So we want to keep those things in front of them and hopefully they’re hearing it preached. So you will have some students that will express like a, huh, I’m interested, but what does that mean? But I would say that’s fairly rare.

[00:12:12] I would say the top part of our funnel is going to be our mission of God class. In the past, that was perspectives, and that is just a really broad class casting vision for God’s heart for the nations and this, this key discipling function that needs to be part of all of our, of our life. And but it flows out like a natural implication would be this.

[00:12:32] disparity among those with little access to the gospel message and probably people that don’t know Christians. So we cast that vision and that typically sparks a lot of interest and you may have several students, not exclusively students, but mostly students that will say I’m interested and we also have a mobilization team at Redeemer that are actively, they also are asking that question.

[00:12:53] So it’s really both that initial question is sometimes spurred from someone from a sermon or more than likely mission of God But a lot of the time it may be one of our mob team or college staff that raises the question with a student and says, Hey, have you thought about this? And oftentimes people like, yeah, but I don’t even know what it means.

[00:13:12] And so then we just have a process that we partnered with Launch Global. They’re embedded with our church on our church staff. They feel like a redeemer church staff. They function that way. And they begin to train them in evangelism. And, And so there’s just a long conversation that begins to emerge there that where you learn to share your faith, that’s step one.

[00:13:30] And then over a long period of time, you begin to discern a call and even fitness for working in a cross cultural context. They’ll begin to do that with internationals sharing their faith and engaging relationally with their nationals locally. So by that point, you’re years in, in relationship. And so there’s just been a conversation going.

[00:13:49] And sometimes people will realize. I don’t think I need to go overseas, but I’m, I’m all about this. I want to pray and send. And then some people feel like that they should go overseas. But at this point, it has been a very two sided conversation and even their fitness for it have been evaluated in real time by people closest to them.

[00:14:06] So usually by the time it comes to the elders for like an affirmation, that there are people that are just deeply in their life that bring strong affirmation of their gifts, and there’s been a two way conversation initiated by both sides.

[00:14:19] Matt: I think that that’s important probably for. people to hear because I know we hear stories and probably Jess even more than I do because she’s on our Prefield Ministries team here of people that maybe are kind of holding these things in their heart until they’re totally confident that God is calling them.

[00:14:37] Then they go to a pastor and this might be the first time their pastor is hearing this and it kind of comes as a shock. And so I think what you’re saying is really the necessity. of beginning that process very early and having these conversations, even if they don’t end up leading someone to go to the field full time as a missionary, that that is how you discern it. It is not done by just you and the Holy Spirit sitting in your prayer closet. That there’s, that God puts people in our lives to help us walk in this journey.

[00:15:12] Dusty: Yeah, well said, because I, what’s in my head, I know exactly what you’re talking about, because again, whenever we’re talking about sending 20, you know, people overseas way back in those, those early days in 2007, that, you know, what you almost envision is like, you know, an altar call kind of setting and somebody tearfully walks forward and, you know, God just told me to go overseas.

[00:15:32] And it’s like, well, Maybe, you know, and, and it could be something that’s spirit initiated that God is prompting, but there’s so much equipping and learning and, and a two sided conversation that I just found an ongoing conversation as best to, I’ve not only perhaps asked the question that might spark interest, but as well as bring a lot of the formation and equipping that is years long and getting someone there. So I just feel like that conversation is key.

[00:16:01] Jess: That kind of reminds me a little bit. My husband kind of has a funny story of how he got sent by his church. He just kind of was wandering after he got sent. Sort of one of those kind of altar call sort of moments. He feels like he’s called to Japan. So he just sort of wandered looking for a church that had a missions pastor, and he kind of wandered in and found the missions pastor, had lunch with him, was like, I want to do this.

[00:16:21] I feel like this is what the Lord has called me to do, but I don’t know what it really means. And I don’t know how to get there. And so then he had kind of this ongoing conversation. And years later, once he finally. Got fully commissioned to go serve in Japan. The pastor told this funny story of how, when he had that first conversation with my husband, he was like, I never thought he was going to make it.

[00:16:42] I thought for sure, this is like never going to turn out. This is, he’s totally not going to follow through with this. And so then it was kind of a cold testimony of how he was like, you know, I. What do I know, right? Obviously God has a bigger plan, right? And so that doesn’t say there’s literally so many different things we can’t understand.

[00:16:59] The Lord’s heart is just so mysterious in so many different ways. But even with that said, I’m sure there are certain things that you’re looking for, things that you’re kind of, are maybe sort of markers of like, yeah, I think this person really They have some of the characteristics, some of the personality traits some of those natural giftings that I could see being really well used on the mission field as a goer.

[00:17:24] Are, are there any things like that that you kind of keep an eye out for? Like, what, what are you thinking when someone comes up to you for the first time? And it, it, it, Kind of starts this conversation again.

[00:17:33] Dusty: Typically, it usually isn’t with me. And I love that question. And even like the process, it very rarely is it with me? It’s usually going to be with college staff or with one of our mobilization team people. And what I would say is, is that I love that story talking about your husband, because we have seen that too, where someone almost does sense that alter call kind of moment. And but even that, yeah. Needs to be tested, informed and equipped that that’s, we feel a sense of responsibility.

[00:18:00] And let me try to tackle your, your thought and question this way. Early on, we were starting to send missionaries way back when, when I was doing college ministry and I had a good friend that worked in an unreached part of the world that finally pulled me aside and said, Hey, listen if you’re only going to send me like people that love to argue about theology and they’re not comfortable sharing their faith, I’d rather you not.

[00:18:23] Yeah. I mean, it was, it was tough talk, but I actually really needed to hear it. And it was actually a real turning point for me about, man, if somebody isn’t super confident and comfortable sharing their faith, I mean, what about going into a new culture, learning language, makes you think it’s going to be easier if they’re not sharing their faith regularly and clearly in their home culture, home language.

[00:18:45] And so I think that’s one of the things is, you may have someone that read, Piper’s let the nations be glad or they go to mission of God and they love the idea of it. And they really do, they believe it. They think it’s beautiful. That thought of all nations worshiping God. But then when it comes down to like very practically sitting across with another human being and sharing their story, sharing clearly from the Bible, the gospel message.

[00:19:09] The hope of, of new life in Jesus through his death and resurrection that like, if that’s not something that they feel really comfortable doing that, that this is not the role for them because what we’re doing is we’re not, we think it’s great to go dig water wells and to go start orphanages. We think Christians should do that.

[00:19:25] What we’re focusing on is setting up evangelistic beachheads where Jesus isn’t known, and the requisite skill is comfortability and sharing their faith, and then secondly, you do want to see a cross cultural ability. That’s the other thing we want to measure is putting them with internationals and are they able to function in that setting.

[00:19:44] And there’s some things you just don’t know until someone moves overseas, but you can have a sense of, of how do they function as a part of a team and community. Are they comfortable sharing their faith across cultures and and just comfortable sharing their faith in general? So those are things that we like to at least evaluate.

[00:20:02] Matt: Do you have any examples or stories maybe of someone who you thought was probably not going to be a good fit? But then they ended up, God really used them. Like there were skills or giftings that just weren’t visible. And maybe even the other way around.

[00:20:20] Dusty: Oh yeah. I mean, that’d be, I wish that we had like Brandon or Miranda or Boyd or Spencer on this call, Drew, because those, those guys have worked. Like, I feel like I’m, I’m hearing second and third hand these kind of things and they could give you, but I, I could think some of some examples of folks that are, like, we had a guy that was one of our residents that right now, by all accounts, he and his wife are blowing the doors off right now with language and even effectiveness with with, with locals and that, I mean, I wouldn’t have thought they wouldn’t have been good at it.

[00:20:52] I was expecting them to be good at it, but that the way that they’ve taken to it, yeah. Is like really awesome. And so I’ve, I’ve seen that a lot of times where you, you just, and there’s some people that are like, really like gifted in a lot of ways. And you might think that they’re going to be team leaders before you know it.

[00:21:09] And they really went over there and struggled. I just don’t think anyone can really know what it’s like to live in a, in a context. And usually the reason they’re unreached is because. You’re way back there and there may not be a lot of creature comforts, or at least things that are comforts to you.

[00:21:25] And I just don’t think anyone knows what that’s like until you’ve done it. And so I think there’s an adjustment and I think it’s a really interesting and it’s often surprising often who’s thriving and who is, is not really enjoying it, you know?

[00:21:39] Jess: Yeah. And that’s just like a testimony, right. To how the Lord, he’s working in, you know, he really sees the heart, right? He doesn’t see all the things that we see, right? But he really sees what’s going on inside. And so I think that’s really kind of a cool part of being able to see people’s, track them through their journey and all that. Which kind of leads me to my next question. Do you, I know, obviously you have this huge process getting up to the field. What happens for your goers after they go? Like, do they have any continued connection with your church, with the members? What’s that look like?

[00:22:11] Dusty: What we try to do is sometimes we run the risk of there being too many cooks in the kitchen where there’s some overlapping, you know, responsibilities and all this, but we’re really trying. One of the things we’ve learned, I mean, you guys would be the experts on this more than me, but I have observed it more anecdotally is that, man, you put all these resources to getting people over there on there on the field and it, it’s actually really hard to keep people there. Sure. And for a variety of reasons, team dynamics, marital health, and just encouragement, family issues on and on. And so what we’re trying to do is as much as we can to provide as much support as we can. And so different layers to this one, we have a field care team led by Spencer and Veronica Stringer. Spencer was one of our elders and exec he’s an executive pastor on staff too, before they went over there. And they’re responsible for, you know, caring for our goers overseas.

[00:23:02] They’re there, you know, over overseas as well. So that’s one layer. We also have on our Redeemer staff, we have our mission staff, we call them our SEND team, and they also are providing layers of care and connection and support, and that’s another layer. And then another thing that we do is from Redeemer members that we have things called advocacy teams where Redeemer members are in ongoing communication and support of individual goers or families of We’re just staying in communication and praying regularly, and when they come back to Lubbock, spending time with them, if they can, going and seeing them, and those are really valuable relationships.

[00:23:44] So, especially because we have a fair amount of turnover in our church, so sometimes they’ll come back after being overseas for three years, and they’re like, I don’t know anybody, but there’s a group of people they’re able to To just reconnect and be a home base for them when they come back and all that.

[00:23:59] So those are, those are three different layers that we’re trying to provide support in concert with a mission sending organizations like pioneers where you try to try to be working in concert where you just, again, you run the risk of there’s like three or four sets of, you know, cooks that are there all in the kitchen and you can have some redundancy or even, you know, different messages you might be getting. That’s a risk, but we feel like it’s offset by just trying to have a lot of care and support for people with what they’re going through.

[00:24:26] Jess: Yeah, for sure. For sure. What would you say is like, of all those different things, right? And even having different cooks doing different things and overlap and all of that. But what would you say is like most important part of the church’s role in helping field worker goers stay, stay healthy.

[00:24:45] Dusty: That’s a good question. I, first of all, I feel like we’ve still got a lot to learn about this. We, we’re, we’re growing and I want to, I just want to keep providing better support. We try to listen a lot when our goers come back home and sometimes they’ll be like, Hey, this, this, the ball was dropped on this area here. So I think that’s a lot of it is just listening that if, if there’s something that isn’t translating well and if, if you’re dropping the ball on things you said you would do for there to be kind of a.

[00:25:10] A conversation. I have a, I heard this a while back that like hospitality is a conversation and this, I think this feels like a conversation to me where that in the same way that like preparing to go was a lot of back and forth and that I feel like staying there is back and forth where. Both sides just have to communicate their needs and, and be willing to apologize when you haven’t done well in something or learn and listen and all that.

[00:25:36] So I think that’s, that’s probably the first thing that comes to mind is just listening a lot and where there are misses just owning the misses and we have them, we really do. There’s just a lot of, there can just be gaps, things you think that are being communicated and where care may be expressed and support may be expressed that maybe is not being felt as much as you might think.

[00:25:56] And sometimes that’s on the goer side, too, where, where those things are just not, where any of the communication is, is stateside initiated, and there’s not regular communication coming back from the field. And so, you know, sometimes there’s, you know, feedback that you offer that way, too.

[00:26:12] Matt: I think a lot of churches might be concerned with all of this effort going into, you know, serving people that are going overseas and kind of raising up people, that you could potentially lose momentum whether because your best and brightest are leaving the country or even the financial resources that this could take, or obviously the infrastructure resources.

[00:26:37] What has been your experience with that? I mean, has your church struggled to kind of Keep a balance in ministry, or do you feel like this has actually fed the Church’s ongoing health and growth in ways that maybe would not even have been possible without this deep emphasis?

[00:26:55] Dusty: Yes, that is a real question, and I think there’s a both and to it, that I don’t want to dress it up that, you know, sending is painful. It just is. And again, we talked about this way earlier that organizations and churches are inherently conservative and that means you don’t like change and you got your crew and you love them. You don’t want them to go. That goes for small groups that may split or, you know, a Sunday school class that gets too big.

[00:27:23] It doesn’t matter, right? It’s painful. It’s really painful when one of your very best people, one of your very best leaders moves a long, long, long ways away. And it’s costly that the most costly thing we do is sending globally right now by a mile. It’s expensive to plant churches, but the most important of the most expensive thing we’ve got going is is sending sending our missionaries.

[00:27:45] So yes, it is costly. I think it’s just important to say that it would be dishonest to say that there’s relationally or financially because none of those things are true. It has to be prioritized and you have to expect it. Now, here’s what I’ll say. On the, on the first on the money side of things that it reminds me a lot.

[00:28:05] There’s so many analogies to as an individual Christian and life with the church that when you carve off, let’s say our initial commitment was 10 percent of our income. We were going to give globally or to church planning. And now over time, we’ve been able to up that percentage. I think now we’re at 16, 17%.

[00:28:22] I’d have to go back and look of our, all of our income goes to something church planning or missions related. But you know how it is, even personally, when you carve out money to give regularly to your church or to helping people go overseas or campus ministry people or whatever, that you know how you just kind of find a way to make do with a little less.

[00:28:40] And that I’ve found that with the church, that you just prioritize, it forces you to be a little bit more efficient with your dollars. But I think God honors that, that generosity, that churches, I think being generous, it’s just interesting for you to tell your people to be generous as a reflection of Jesus’s generosity to us on the cross.

[00:28:58] And then for churches to be like, no, we’re going to spend it all on ourself. It’s just interesting and ironic, I think. So, I love the thought of organizationally being generous as well, but even on the people front, here’s a really interesting dynamic. is that I’ve found every single time there are times where some of our leaders that we’ve sent to plant churches and to go overseas that I’ve had to gulp really hard especially in the early days where I remember back in 2011, one of your staff members, Drew Remke Josh Reeves, those were our other two elders other than me.

[00:29:30] And then our next best leader, a very young college leader, just out of college leader named Jordan Elder. Those three guys were our top three leaders in the church. And Jordan and Josh went to go plant a church in Round Rock and Drew moved overseas again. And man, I mean, it’s like my top three leaders walked out of the door in the, within three, within six months of each other, really tough.

[00:29:53] And I mean, we, we were reeling for a bit. I would not recommend, I’ve told Drew and Josh and Jordan this, that I think what I should have said is, Hey, look, I need like a year of separation between, like, can you give, let me react to one of those two. So it was costly, but here’s what’s interesting is every single time somebody leaves, the Lord provides and it actually creates opportunity here.

[00:30:15] So like even most recently, even to move away from 2011, in 2020, when Spencer and Veronica moved to go be field coordinators overseas, that that created a space. On our executive team for Kenan Harris, who is a senior ministry director, a very good young leader, and he got promoted to executive pastor and Kenan might be the most gifted leader that I’ve ever worked with.

[00:30:38] Incredible. I mean, I love, I love, I’ve loved working with all of our team, but he and Ben make an incredible executive team and he is just everything he touches is done so well, so thoughtfully, and it created opportunity and the Lord provided all at the same time. And Spencer and Veronica are doing incredible work globally, you know, working with our goers and God provided for Redeemer.

[00:31:01] So that’s what I would say is that, that there’s pain there, for sure. And I don’t want to, I don’t want to understate it, that it’s there, but it also creates tremendous opportunity for other leaders that hopefully are being developed on your staff and your church. Create some opportunity for them and God will provide.

[00:31:19] Jess: Yeah. That’s so awesome. Thank you so much for sharing. So like, honestly, about kind of the realities, it’s not just all, you know, rainbows and unicorns once you decide to send people overseas, right between whether that’s taking feedback from the field and be like, yeah, this was our miss. This is an area where we need to grow as a church.

[00:31:36] Even with your years of experience and the programs that you have in place, there are still things that you can grow in. Yeah. Absolutely. Also at the same time, just like the real cost of prioritizing missions. I think that’s just so good to say straight up, you know, no, no fluff about that. So that’s really, really good.

[00:31:55] On the other hand, right, we get a lot of people who come through Pioneer’s doors. And they say they’re the first missionary that their church has ever sent, right? Their church has never really supported other than, you know, like some people here on the sides, but in terms of actually sending that the first ones, they want to be partnered well with their church, but they don’t know how the church doesn’t know how the pastor doesn’t really know.

[00:32:19] Right. They’re kind of leaning on pioneers a little bit to figure that out. But what would you have for a church or Want to be missionary who’s kind of starting that journey from, and they’re building that up from the ground up in their community, in their church. Like, what are some words that you would have for someone in that situation?

[00:32:37] Dusty: For the leader is just a quick word, you know, cause I think you’re asking more from the missionary standpoint about how they would interact. But I would say this to a leader. If, you know, if a pastor is in that situation, again, just being a good learner and you know, you could go to a, you guys have some really good resources, conferences and resources that they could learn from, including this podcast.

[00:32:56] And just, you know, Consume as much as you could. I remember early on that there’s a church in Waco that was doing some of this of what we’re wanting to do, you know, with global sending and I don’t even know if I think like mp3 stuff I found somewhere that was pre like, you know, it was kind of stone age with internet things and I went and found some of their stuff and man, I listened to everything they had.

[00:33:18] There are resources out there that you could learn and grow on You on the heart behind all of this and even and how and even talking to your go or maybe even going to you know, they’re some of their, their training that they go to that you could benefit from as well. And so I’d say that first of all, take that position of learner and see what you can do to support, have that good open line of communication.

[00:33:39] And I think if you’re the. If you’re the missionary, the kind of missionary candidate where I think walking humbly, because you know, sometimes I don’t mean to be offensive with this, but missions people have I think a bad reputation probably for good reason oftentimes is that you talk to pastors and they’re like, Oh man, the missions people at my church.

[00:34:00] And the reputation is, is that the only, the ultimate one issue voters is nothing else matters in the life of the church. Other than like this, this missions thing and that everything else is invalidated. And, and I think being and I think it’s one of my favorite things about a lot of our, our people that are the quote unquote missions people at Redeemer is they are pro Redeemer, that they, they want to see Redeemer in Lubbock flourish.

[00:34:25] And so like really work for the, the welfare of the community. of the church and serve it, be deeply involved, be relationally connected in the main stem of the church, not just in the missions wing, be in a small group and be regular and consistent on Sundays and serve in the kids area and do what members are doing and just be as involved as you can be a member.

[00:34:43] And that’s it. Be in good relationship and cultivate relationship with staff and leaders, not just to sell them on what you’re doing. But just being like, it makes all the difference for me when I know that someone is really for the mission of the church and not just a particular thing that they’re interested in.

[00:34:59] I can hear so much from them. And so I, I would just say, you know, being a good team player and and then where you can be able to. To invite people into like real actionable things that they can participate in. Hey, I would love to share with us this resource that’ll help you understand why I’m going overseas, or I would love that there’s a conference I’m going to where I’m going to be commissioned and you can hear more about why I’m going to do that.

[00:35:23] I would love to invite you if you have the resources and funding to be able to come to this conference and, and whatever. I mean, there’s so many different ways that you can invite them into things, into relationship. And even, even if none of those things are doable, that, that, you know, putting them on your newsletter and even communicating with them when you come back.

[00:35:43] I’m having coffee and sharing with them stories about how God’s at work. I think where you can positively, winsomely include is going to be way better than like lectures and you know, any kind of like stuff that feels over the top and and all that. Cause you know, your average pastor has just got so many things that are pulling from them.

[00:36:02] I mean, it could feel so overwhelming and almost so many like special interest people that want to get in front of them to influence them or to, to say you ought to be prioritizing this particular ministry that week that you may be going in there. You may have had a women’s ministry person and a a, someone that with a ministry that works with kids in the city that’s asked for their time and so many things and they can, they can hear you as another person. So, the more, the more pro church you are, and ways that you can winsomely invite them into your ministry, I think are, are ways that are, can be really well received.

[00:36:36] Matt: Yeah, that’s good, because those are the people that, once you’re on the field, They’re going to be the ones supporting you in prayer, and when you come home, they might be the ones loaning you a car so you can drive around and, and visit people and visit churches and supporters.

[00:36:53] So, so those relationships are super important.

[00:36:56] Dusty: That’s a, a tangible, actionable way that they can support you too. And I’ve found lots of churches that may not have read Let the Nations Be Glad. And don’t know anything about pioneers that that they would love just to help out practically. And that’s something they know how to do.

[00:37:10] A lot of churches are really good at care and support. And so, yeah, letting, letting them partner with you in those ways are really things that they can get behind.

[00:37:18] Matt: Yeah. Well, thank you, Dusty, for just sharing your perspective from from the seat of the pastor at a church. We’ve talked to a lot of missionaries, but this is the first time we’ve had a conversation with someone in your position, and to see and to hear your heart for the unreached and for sending and all the risks and loss that that entails, along with all the joys. It’s been really cool. to, to hear from you. Anything you’ve been reading or listening to or watching that’s been inspiring or challenging you lately?

[00:37:50] Dusty: I don’t know if I’ve got a whole lot of new thoughts right now. I have been thinking a little bit about there’s a book called Dominion that is an interesting thought an interesting idea where, you know, the, and there’s some more brief versions of this book that that are talking about.

[00:38:08] You know, how what happens when society that is, has been largely Christianized and it’s in its worldview and what happens when, you know, you, and you still have, you have all these Christian values that non Christians are, are latching onto where, you know, justice and equality and we want to push back against racism and all of this, but they’re really Christian ideas.

[00:38:31] And that and it’s written by a guy named Tom Holland. And what, what happens, how long does that continue to carry on when a society kind of ditches the, a lot of the, like the foundational support for those values? And you could almost make a case, like our culture war here in America is between, you know, you have like this liberal and conservative groups that are really at war and kind of lobbing bombs at each other.

[00:38:56] You could make a case. And I need to be careful how I say this here, but that Holland and others would, if you kind of synthesize them all, would say these are essentially two Christian factions at war because they’re all using Christian framework of, you know, compassion and justice and all these things that really are like the, the Christian worldview kind of won out in the West.

[00:39:17] But how much longer is that true? How much longer do these categories hold if severed from like biblical content of what’s true? So that’s just a thought that I’ve been. been thinking about like culturally, and that may not resonate globally as much, but perhaps it does.

[00:39:33] Jess: I love how practical Dusty was just in sharing about the kind of ways that the church can be involved in sending, that the missionary can really facilitate that conversation. He said conversation so many times because it’s not just like a one and done thing, right? It’s sort of this ongoing process. And I think one of the ways that. They really exemplify that is through the ministries that their church has reaching out to their local international community. And so if you want to hear a really cool story of how that is happening in the life of the people at their church, check out our bonus story in the show notes below.

[00:40:09] Matt: Yeah, and while you’re there, we also have links to our church partners team, which is a very crucial part of Pioneers, that links up people that come to us and want to be sent with their local church and help serve their local church in sending them. So we have a church partner forum. That’s right. that is free for pastors and church leaders to come to if they’re interested in exploring how their church can be more involved.

[00:40:33] So I’ll have a link to that. And then we have a few other resources that our church partnerships team offers as well as some videos that might help you understand a little bit more. Clearly how Pioneers relates with the local church. Also, we’ll have a link to the book that Dusty mentioned, Dominion, which I would also highly recommend as well.

[00:40:53] Jess: Thanks for following us on this episode of the Relentless Pursuit podcast. Our goal is to make missions accessible to show that it’s not just reserved for elite super Christians. If you want to be involved, just go to pioneers. org slash start and answer a few questions. We have a team who would love to help you discern your calling and what your next steps might be.

[00:41:12] Matt: At Pioneers, we love to partner with local churches and send teams to people groups with little or no access to the gospel. Keep up with what God is doing by following us on Instagram, Facebook, X, and YouTube, all at PioneersUSA, one word, or visit pioneers. org. Thanks for listening.

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