“Victory to Jesus!”

[00:00:00] Elyse: They leapt off the floor and yelled, Jesus is the Lord, and everybody burst into applause. And then they just kept repeating over and over, victory to Jesus, victory to the true God, victory to Jesus.

[00:00:23] Matt: This is the Relentless Pursuit podcast, where we hear stories from cross cultural workers on what it’s really like to be a missionary, the good, the bad, and the ugly. So in this episode of the podcast, you might hear some things that sound unusual for someone coming maybe from a Western context.

[00:00:41] Jess: That’s an understatement.

[00:00:43] Matt: But I just encourage you to keep an open mind and listen to the story of our guest as she talks about her experience serving in, in South Asia and, and some of the amazing things that she encounters there.

[00:00:58] Jess: So Elyse is a pioneer s missionary serving in South Asia, and she was actually on our podcast about two years ago. And at that time she told this awesome story of a Hindu friend who came to faith through a series of. Really miraculous interventions from the Lord. And so that’s been a few years now since all of that happened.

[00:01:17] And so in this season, in this episode, we get to hear a little bit about what has happened since then in the life of this woman and in the life of her family. So we’re going to just dive right in with Elyse telling us her story.

[00:01:31] Elyse: So, as you guys know, a very dear friend of mine came to faith during COVID lockdown, and I had the chance.

[00:01:37] During lockdown to disciple her and watch her grow watch her get baptized. You got baptized on the same day as our oldest son. And one of the things that she said to me as she was coming to faith, she said, I don’t know that my family will ever follow Jesus. And I said, Oh no, don’t, don’t say that.

[00:01:55] Why would you say that? You came to faith, you follow Jesus. And she said, I know, but you don’t understand. Like I wasn’t, I wasn’t deep into Hinduism. Like my, my parents, like my dad is such a devotee of Krishna that he has done puja. He has done a worship ceremony every day of his life to Krishna since he was six years old.

[00:02:19] And so I just said, I know it seems impossible, but why don’t we Why don’t we just pray? Why don’t we just see? And so over the next year, he did see, he did begin to see Jesus, heal him, heal his daughter, provide for their family when they were just totally bankrupt financially. And he began to even pray in Jesus name and tell people about Jesus, even though He was still following Krishna every day.

[00:02:48] So if he had a buddy that would, you know, tell him about some problem, this my friend’s dad would say, well, have you prayed to Lord Jesus yet? And I just thought it was, you know, this guy was actually an incredible evangelist before following Jesus. Right. And so it’s really. It was, it’s just a good reminder to follow the story, right?

[00:03:08] Like ride the wave as people are coming to faith. Like we don’t have to rush things. The Holy Spirit is moving and working and his timing is perfect. And so I think that was one of the things that I just felt so encouraged by. But the culmination of this year of talking about Jesus and kind of, praying to Jesus on the side it all came to a head when this this uncle his father passed away and he went home to his village.

[00:03:37] And while he was there, his wife, my friend’s mother began. Being attacked, I would say by an evil spirit. So my friend called me and said, Hey, my mom has been having these horrible nightmares. She’s been seeing things like she thinks she’s seeing spirits or seeing somebody following her. And it’s really just been wrecking her.

[00:03:56] Would you please, please pray for my mom? Would you have your family pray for my mom? And so called up all my buddies. Hey, pray for my friend’s mom. And then she came back from the village and maybe two weeks after getting back from the village, my friend called me really late one night. It was maybe 10, 10:30 p. m. And she said, Hey, I really think that my mom has an evil spirit in her. Like, all day long. She’s just been completely out of control. She’s been talking. I’m seeing really weird things. She’s been speaking in other voices. And now for the past three hours, she’s been laying on the bed and I cannot wake her up.

[00:04:33] So she said, will you please, please come just check on my mom. She goes, I don’t know, maybe it could be a medical thing. And you know, I’m a medical professional. So she said, maybe it is something medical. Can you just come see? And like where she lives. It’s, it’s a little bit in the hood. Like, I don’t like to walk through this urban village by myself after 8 PM.

[00:04:51] And so I just said, Oh, you know, it’s a little late and trying to figure out what to do. So I said, Hey, can we just do a video call? So let’s just, you know, jump on WhatsApp really fast, do a video call. And this is what, what you need to know is that this mother loves me. Like her mom, like feeds me fish, fried fish with her bare hands.

[00:05:07] And she just yeah. Pets my hair and calls me daughter like we are besties. And so my friend Radha starts to try to wake up her mom. She has the phone like above her mother who is laying in the bed and she’s going, mom, mom, wake up, like yelling at her. I’m just kind of watching, you know, this lady kind of move around on the bed.

[00:05:27] Mom, wake up mom. Nothing, zero response. And then she says Mom, I’m going to call at least to come pray for you. And her mom sits up in the bed and screams in a voice that was not her own. And I was just like, Oh my gosh. So my friend just looks at me and goes I, I think you better come. And I’m like, Oh my gosh.

[00:05:54] Okay. So I hang up the phone and I’m trying to make a plan. I’m like, okay, like kids are in the bath. It’s bedtime. Like I’ve got to figure out what to do, you know? So I call my teammate who lives kind of on the edge of this urban village and I go I call her. She picks up the phone. I go, Hey girl. What are you doing?

[00:06:12] And she goes, Oh, I’m just watching Netflix with my husband. And I’m like, cool, cool, cool. Do you want to go like cast out some demons tonight? And she was like, what? How do you get yourself into these situations? And I was like, I don’t know. Just come with me. And like, okay, so this is what I need you to imagine.

[00:06:31] Cause like, We are both Baptist pastor’s daughters, okay? Like we both went to Christian colleges, very conservative Christian colleges. And here we are, like, we’ve got our heads covered. We’re, we’re walking through this village at night. And and my teammate is like fully singing hymns. Right on the way because we just don’t know like what’s going to happen.

[00:06:56] And so we get into the house finally. And like the whole entire family is there. Right. So my friend’s mom is sitting on the bed. She’s there with her two daughters, her sister, her sister’s husband, their two children, her brother and her father. And there’s this super weird vibe in the room. And the only way I can explain it is if you Like, maybe when you were like a teenager or in college and you were watching a scary movie with your friends, you’re like, you’re scared, but you’re also kind of giggly about it.

[00:07:24] Like, I wouldn’t, you know, like everybody’s jumpy. And so that was the vibe as I walked in because grandma, you know, is sitting in bed and they’re asking her questions and she’s giving just like, Ludicrous answers, right? Like she’s saying that she wants to smoke cigarettes and she’s, she’s saying that her name is a different name and she’s talking about all these things that are just so wild.

[00:07:47] And so everybody’s just kind of like, almost in a way, it was almost like they were being entertained, which, which felt weird. Yeah. Yeah. Really uncomfortable to me. Anyway, it was, it was, it was pretty strange, but we walked in and I asked what they thought happened. And my friend explained to me that her brother in law who was sitting there, his brother, just two weeks before when they were in the village, had been tortured was the word she used, tortured by an evil spirit.

[00:08:14] It had been waking him up at night. Choking him. He would wake up screaming, gasping. She said this went on for four nights and then on the last night he woke up and he coughed and coughed for two hours and then he screamed and then he died. And they all said the spirit. killed him and then came off of him and we think it came onto my brother in law, she goes, who took the train to our city.

[00:08:41] And I’m like, okay, don’t have a great theological understanding of demons taking trains to the city, but okay. I’m trying to track a few. They said, because the brother in law has been waking up at night. Screaming, thinking someone is choking him. And now look at brother in law, he’s fine. And now my mom is like this.

[00:08:59] And so I’m trying to wrap my head around all of this. You know, I, I told you I’m also a medical practitioner, so I’m going, okay, but maybe is there any, any way there’s some kind of like mental break happening or that, you know, I’m just trying to figure it out. Right. And finally I just go, okay. Guys, I don’t know.

[00:09:14] I don’t know about all of this, but what I do know is that there is power in the name of Jesus. And so we’re just going to pray right now in the name of Jesus and see what happens. And so they all go, okay, let’s do it. And so me and my teammate and my friend Radha and her sister all walk over to the mom who’s just sitting there.

[00:09:31] blank faced, right? Like just staring into the abyss. And I laid my hand on her forehead and said in our local language, in the name of Jesus, that’s all I said. And the mom starts coughing so violently. And so now everybody in the family, it just backs up into the corner, right? Because they’re freaking out.

[00:09:54] And now. Her teeth are grinding and her body starts contorting and she is just letting out these horrible sounds. And I’m sitting there going like, this is what I read in scripture, right? Like these are the stories from the gospels and from the book of Acts. And I am seeing it happen in front of me.

[00:10:13] And so we just kept praying. And as we did, it just got more and more violent, right? Like her whole body is just looks like it’s just in horrible pain. And so, a couple of years ago we had a very dear friend who’s a pastor, who’s a Muslim background believer. And I just asked him what on earth he does when he encounters evil spirits.

[00:10:36] I said, you know, do you ever encounter evil spirits? And he’s like, Oh, absolutely. All the time. So, And so he goes, there are three things that I do. So the first thing I do is I pray scripture. I pray scripture over people. I go, okay, great. I can do that. The second thing he said, I pray with authority.

[00:10:51] Jesus has all the authority. And so pray with authority. And he goes, the third thing I do. He’s like, and now this is really weird. He goes, it’s a little bit, it’s like a cultural piece. So don’t think too much about it. But I, like, I, I pray over water and I have them drink the water and then the spirit comes out and I’m just going, Oh my gosh, holy water.

[00:11:12] Like, am I really going to do this? Like, what are, like, what is my dad going to say? You know, I’m just, can’t even like, But he goes, like I said, don’t think about it very much. Just like tuck that away. And so as we’re praying for this lady, I remember those words. And so we just began to pray scripture over this lady and we began to pray with authority, you know, enemy, you have no space here.

[00:11:35] You have no room here. This, you know, anyway, so we’re just, we’re just praying, praying, praying. Anyway, at some point I look at my friend, it’s probably like five minutes into praying, and I look at my friend and I go, can you get me some water? So she goes and gets me some water. And I remember sitting there with this glass of water and I’m like, praying over it.

[00:11:53] I’m like, okay, Jesus, this is actually the weirdest thing that I have ever done. And you know, it is, but I just need you to make this water holy. And I need you to get this. spirit out of this lady. And so then I tell my friend, I hand her the glass and I say, tell your mom to drink it. And so she’s like, mom, drink the water.

[00:12:09] And her mom immediately purses her lips together, like puts her lips so tightly together. She’s like, shaking her head. No. And just going, and my friend is like, mom, drink the water. And so I’m just like, so now everybody’s just like, Drink the water in the name of Jesus. I’m like, this is just so nuts. And so my friend opens her mouth like you would a child, like you’re trying to get your toddler to eat peas.

[00:12:35] She forces her mother’s mouth open and she pours the water in. And this woman screams like she is being burned down her throat and she screamed super loudly and then she collapses and the city that I live in. There are like 45 million people. Like there are so many people, so you can always hear things.

[00:12:55] And I remember thinking. I couldn’t hear anything. There was just like, you could not hear a pen drop. It was totally silent. And I know that my friend’s family was thinking, you just killed our mother. Like you just killed my wife, you know, and I’m just going, okay, Jesus. And so we just keep praying, keep praying.

[00:13:11] And a couple minutes later, she begins to move and she kind of comes to, and she sits up and she fixes her hair and she puts on her glasses and she looks at me and goes, Elyse, when did you get here? And she looks at my teammate and goes, this is the first time you’ve been to my home. Somebody get her chai.

[00:13:29] Like, it was just like, we have to give her some tea. And at that moment, this woman’s husband, the one who has prayed to Krishna every day since he was six and the brother in law who had just been experiencing the same spirit, they leapt off the floor. and yelled, Jesus is the Lord. And everybody burst into applause.

[00:13:57] And then they just kept repeating over and over victory to Jesus, victory to the true God, victory to Jesus. And I’m just sitting there. Absolutely stunned because I know what scripture says, and I know what my Jesus is capable of, but to see that, to have a front row seat to the power of God, and then see the response of these people that I have been Begged the Lord to reveal himself to that.

[00:14:28] I have begged for him to draw them to himself and to watch it happen before my eyes was just the best. And I remember uncle comes over to me and goes, what now? What do we do now? And I said, uncle, you said it. Jesus is the Lord. And he. Is the only Lord you have to pray in his name only. You have to follow him only.

[00:14:53] That is the only hope that you have for your wife to be okay. And he goes, you know, the crazy thing is that I have spent about 3000 us dollars over the years, taking my wife from priest to priest, to temple, to temple with no benefit. And you speak this one name and in five minutes and for free, my wife is healed.

[00:15:20] He said, I’ve never seen power like this before. The next day, my friend called me and goes, I have to tell you what happened today. She goes, you know, my father, every morning he wakes up, he bathes, he does his worship to Krishna and then he goes to work. She goes, he bathed and he put on his clothes and he walked out the door to work.

[00:15:39] He didn’t do the worship ceremony. And I was like, Oh my gosh. And so the next day she calls, he didn’t do it again today. The next day didn’t do it. The fourth day didn’t do it. And she calls me and goes, okay, you actually won’t believe this. So he came home from work today. And like most of the old uncles in the city, he rolls his own cigarettes, right?

[00:15:59] And so he comes home from his long day of work and he rolls his own cigarette and he’s, he’s smoking his cigarette. And when he gets to the end, he walks over to the temple on their wall that houses Krishna and he puts the cigarette out in the temple, like total desecration. And the whole family is just like, yeah, what is dad doing?

[00:16:22] And he goes, if there is no God living in here. then I may as well use it for something. So my friend goes, I think he really wants to follow Jesus. And so I came back the next week and he said, I have to know more about your Jesus. And I go, well, I got a book full of stories for you. And so he’s like done every Sunday night, you’ll come and you’ll tell us a story about Jesus.

[00:16:46] And so for four Sundays in a row, I came and told them a story and usually what I do when people are coming to faith or have some kind of interest, I tell the story of Jesus feeding the 5,000 the story of Jesus casting out demons from the demoniacs of the garrisons, Jesus raising, raising Lazarus from the dead and some other healing, maybe Peter’s mother in law or something like that, to just kind of give them the range of what Jesus is capable of.

[00:17:14] And so, we had done four Sundays in a row and Easter was coming up and, you know, for Hindus, especially they’ve got like a million festivals, like every day is a holiday for Hindus. There’s always something they’re celebrating. And for Christians, right? Like we got like two, so Easter was coming up and I really wanted to take advantage of like one of our two festivals, one of our two holy days.

[00:17:37] And so I let them know that this holiday was coming and they said, Oh man, how do you celebrate it? For Easter. And so I told them about good Friday and how we, we grieve on that day, but we also remember what Jesus did. And so they’re, they’re going, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then I realized as I’m, as I’m talking to them, I go, Oh, they don’t know the rest of the story.

[00:17:57] Right. Like they don’t know about Good Friday. Like I’ve only told them these four stories about Jesus. And so they agree to come to our house for Easter and we decide to show them the Jesus film in their heart language in their in their mother tongue. And it was so, so fun watching this. Film with them because the four stories that they knew as those stories are happening in the film, they’re recognizing and they’re like, Oh, this is the best part.

[00:18:22] Jesus is going to make so much fish and so much bread. Oh, watch out. Don’t worry. I know they said he’s dead, but he is going to call him out of that tomb. Like they’re just, they’re just talking amongst themselves. They’re talking towards the TV and it was just super, super fun. And obviously we know the story, right?

[00:18:38] And so the Pharisees, Sadducees start talking about arresting Jesus. And putting him to death and my friend’s mom, the one who had had the evil spirit throws back her head and laughs and goes. They think they’re going to kill the son of God. And my friend turns around and looks at me and we’re both like, Oh no, she doesn’t know what happened.

[00:19:04] And so I’m getting like a little nervous. Right. And so they do arrest him and, you know, in the video, it’s like showing Jesus in shackles and, and this, this woman, this mother is just going, no, this, this cannot be happening. And the uncle, you know, looks at her, pats her on the arm and goes, no, no, Jesus is going to do some magic and he’s going to escape.

[00:19:23] Don’t worry. It’s going to all be fine. And I’m still just going, Oh my gosh, I don’t even know. And then they begin to whip Jesus and then they crucify him. And in the film, as they are driving the nails into his hands, my friend’s parents and the sister and her son are all sitting right on the couch, right in front of the TV.

[00:19:46] And they began to shake their heads and say, It’s not supposed to be like this. This shouldn’t be, this shouldn’t be happening. And they began to weep. And I just remember watching them and thinking this had to have been what the disciples felt like. He was the one, right? Like he had all the power. He was casting out demons.

[00:20:11] He was raising people from the dead. He said the kingdom was coming. And now, and now this. And so everybody’s weeping. My husband and I are looking at each other. We’re sobbing, like everybody’s crying. And in this, this particular Jesus film that we were showing them it’s Mary who finds Jesus at the tomb the next day.

[00:20:32] And she thinks he’s the gardener. And she goes, you know, if you know where his body is, please tell me. I just have to find my Lord. And and Jesus calls her by name and she drops to her knees and says, Rabboni teacher. Lord. And everybody loses their minds. They’re like, what? He comes back from the dead.

[00:20:55] Oh, you’ve got to be kidding me. Oh, oh, wait, wait. Is this why you call him the living God? Oh, this is the best. And the father goes, This is the greatest story ever told. So we’re all just wiping our faces and nodding in agreement. It is, it is the greatest story ever told. So then he walks over at the end of the time, everybody’s getting ready to leave.

[00:21:20] And this uncle says the same thing again. He basically says, it’s like from acts. What must I do to be saved? He’s just like, what, tell us what to do. I said, uncle. Scripture says to believe in your heart that God raised Jesus from the dead, believe it, and confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord. And he goes, okay, Jesus is the Lord.

[00:21:48] And he just starts yelling it and everybody else does too. And it was just this beautiful, genuine response. How am I saved? What now? They’re saying that Jesus is Lord. They’re just like, yes, he is. And so it was just actually the best to watch all of that. And then to continue growing with them over this past I guess I’ve been meeting with them now about a year and a half.

[00:22:17] And then the other thing that’s, that’s really cool is they eventually invited me to their village. And so I got to be with them the village where they live, they speak a language that I don’t know. So I called some friends from pioneers that live in a local city and they came down with a local pastor and this family housed us in the village.

[00:22:39] And I watched as this auntie and uncle went door to door and asked all of their neighbors. To come and hear the gospel. There were 45 people packed in their tiny, tiny house to hear about Jesus. And it’s just nuts, right? Cause I think like, that’s the hope. Like, I think when we moved to this big city, our idea was to share the gospel with and make disciples of people from all over the country.

[00:23:04] That was the idea, but to like actually watch it happen to be able to share in a village where no one knew the name of Jesus before is just like. It’s a dream come true, right? It’s, it’s, yeah, it’s such a gift.

[00:23:19] Matt: It is. Yeah. And I think too, just to be able to watch it happen in real time through their eyes, to hear the gospel for the first time, to hear the story.

[00:23:32] And I’m sure even for you, It was kind of like experiencing it for the first time because you got to see things maybe you hadn’t noticed before because you were looking at it through the eyes of people who’d never experienced it. Yeah. So just what a privilege.

[00:23:48] Elyse: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

[00:23:51] Jess: Such a, such a wild story. I feel like there’s like so much to unpack, like so many details I want to hear about. But just to like, Back up a little bit and get a little bit more of your background. You mentioned early on in the story that, you know, you’re like a Baptist pastor’s kid, right? It’s kind of clear from the story, which talking about that, this was not like an everyday daily occurrence that you were like casting your demons left, right, and center as soon as you like landed in South Asia, right?

[00:24:23] Even as you were going through the experience and now as you kind of processing it and stuff like that, like how did you kind of. Figure out like what’s, what’s going on and what were you kind of thinking about all of this in terms of your background and what you knew and all of that?

[00:24:39] Elyse: Yeah. I had read a book before moving to the field just called spiritual warfare. And I remember, It was, it was written by a Southern Baptist pastor. And the first chapter was about his encounter in a Southeast Asian country with a demon. And he got a lot of pushback, right? Like people were like, you can’t be talking about that. But I read that and I go, okay, if this guy is willing to share this experience and it, and it wrecked him, but in all the right ways.

[00:25:10] Right. Like it helped him go, okay, this situation is so much different than what I expected, but also my God is so much bigger than I even realized. And he just did like such a good job. So I, I unpacking that. So I think even when I read that before coming, I went, okay, Like, I need to at least be aware that this is a thing.

[00:25:30] The other thing that I’ll say is that God in his kindness I think gave us some prep in the U S before we came. So I remember doing my psychiatry rotation in an inpatient psych hospital and just remembering like 80 percent of my patients that were having hallucinations were having hallucinations about spiritual things.

[00:25:51] God, the devil, demons, angels. And I go, why aren’t they hallucinating about cookie monster? Like, why aren’t they hallucinating? Like, why are they, why are there so many spiritual things that, that people are having? Is it possible that there’s, there’s overlap in the spiritual realm? Like it’s not all just mental health, like right in the, in the West, we really like to have, this is our physical health.

[00:26:13] This is our mental health and spiritual. That’s weird. Like we don’t, but what I, what I’ve just noticed over the years is that there absolutely is physical, mental, and spiritual, and that there’s a lot of overlap. And so that was the first thing that I think was helpful to prepare us. The second thing was Our family moved to a very low income neighborhood before moving to South Asia.

[00:26:35] We had lots of domestic violence. We had lots of drugs. There was just, there was always some kind of nonsense going on. And for a while there was a Mexican brouhaha, a Mexican witch living across the street from us. And there was some crazy stuff that was happening. And I remember just going, okay, I need to just kind of wrap my mind around this for a second.

[00:26:57] And I even just. Even when it was happening in the US I went, this is prepping us for something that we know nothing about. And I remember even just feeling that that was so kind of God to just give us those experiences and help us go this is real. There is a spiritual battle that is happening.

[00:27:15] There is a spiritual realm of things that we can’t see. And, and, and we were able to experience it before coming. So I think the rug wasn’t quite pulled out from underneath us. We were, we were researching, we were talking with other people, we were asking other workers about their experiences. So I do think that was really helpful to prepare us.

[00:27:35] So they weren’t, they weren’t, they weren’t, Completely caught off guard.

[00:27:38] Matt: Sometimes with Hindus, they can kind of incorporate worship of Jesus into their pantheon of gods, but it sounds like that’s not what happened in this situation. And the first indicator to me would be that he put out his cigarette in that idol altar, which indicates a, you know, a disrespect or a lack of, a lack of confidence in that, in that God.

[00:28:02] Were there other things that you saw, you know, that indicated that this allegiance was now entirely toward Jesus, not just simply incorporating Jesus into the pantheon of Hindu gods that they were worshiping.

[00:28:16] Elyse: Yeah, that’s a, that’s a great question. So again, there was, I would say in the beginning, when I first met my friend’s parents, any time we had an interaction where I mentioned Lord Jesus, or I mentioned prayer or the word of God, I am telling you, it went one ear and out the other.

[00:28:39] Or they would say, we really don’t know what you’re talking about. And I was like, I know, I know my accent isn’t great. I just need you, you know, but like they weren’t, nothing was sticking. So that happened for about six months and it was, it was pretty discouraging. I’m like, it’s Christmas guys. It’s not that hard.

[00:28:57] You know, it was, they were just like, not nothing, no dots were connecting. And then. There was that there was about a year that I would say that they had added Jesus to the mix, right? So they’re telling other people to pray to Jesus, but they were still doing the everyday worship to Krishna. They’re still going to so I would say there was almost a year where Jesus had just been added to the mix.

[00:29:24] I remember, I remember this uncle being like, Hey, can you get me a Jesus idol? And I was like, Oh yeah. So we don’t. So yeah, we don’t really do idols. And like, this is why. And he was like, okay, but can you get me a picture? Like just a, Big picture. And again, I’m like, yeah, so we don’t like, we don’t do that.

[00:29:41] And he goes, well, some of your people do. I was like, well, you’re not wrong. You know, I really don’t know what to say about that. And so a few weeks later when I went to their house on one of those Sunday nights, there is a massive sacred heart Jesus duct tape to the wall. And he goes, Oh man, I got it. And so I was like, okay, so just as a reminder, this picture can’t do anything.

[00:30:07] This picture doesn’t protect you. This picture doesn’t help you. And he goes, no, no, no. You’ve already explained that. I just want it on my wall to remind me that he is the Lord. And so I’m looking at this huge, you know, sacred heart Jesus with the duct tape. I’ll have to send you guys the picture. It’s incredible.

[00:30:23] And still their temple is still on the wall. Okay. So, it’s not being used. It’s dusty. I still remember my friend told me that one day a Hindu priest came in and goes, Hey, you guys haven’t called me in ages. Just kind of like, you know, invited himself. And so he comes in and sees the temple on the wall and sees how dusty and dirty and filled with ashes it is and goes, what are you doing?

[00:30:47] Like, if you pay me. You know, this amount of money then I will clean it up and I will do the pooja and I will, you know, do this ceremony for you. And my friend’s dad just said you know, politely refused and then aggressively refused and the priest left in anger. So I thought, okay, that’s really real.

[00:31:06] If they were able to say to this priest’s face, we don’t want to do this anymore. But there was still, it still bothered me. That the temple was on the wall, right? And, and I don’t know what they’re supposed to do, right? If they throw it out, if they throw it in the trash, everybody sees, and there could potentially be a mob.

[00:31:26] Like that’s, that’s real. If people feel really strongly about what they’ve done, that could be the end of them socially or physically or whatever. And so I didn’t want to push them. We, we talked about it. I just kept reminding them, but every day, every, Night that I was at their house, I’m looking at this picture of Jesus and the temple on the wall.

[00:31:45] And I typically do not push, especially first generation believers. I am not going, well, you know, the Bible says you guys got to do this and this. I, we read scripture and I let the Holy spirit work because Holy spirit does such a better job than I do. But one night I felt so strongly. That I needed to ask them if they would consider taking the temple down.

[00:32:09] And so the whole way there, I am just praying. I’m like, Lord, how am I going to tell them this? This is like, and I was just feeling like really uncomfortable about it. Like there was a battle going on inside, but I felt like, okay, I’m going to do this, Jesus, you’re going to help me do this. And, and I walked in and as I walked into their big room, I saw that they had taken it down and I go, Guys, you took down your temple.

[00:32:32] And they were like, yeah, the craziest thing happened. We decided we were going to take it down. And so we were prepping for it. Cause we had to make a plan, put it in this bag. We had to put it in this dumpster, like in somebody else’s neighborhood. So we made this whole plan, but when we tried to take it off the wall.

[00:32:49] A voice came out of the temple and so we all started freaking out because we heard this voice and I look at my friend, I’m like, what the heck, you know, and she looks at me and she kind of has this like kind of playful smile. I’m like, what is happening? And so she’s like, so we, we, we picked it up again, same thing, noise happened.

[00:33:08] And we said, we’re going to have to pray in Jesus name and just boldly take it off. And when we did the door to the temple opened and There was a family of mice in there and it was the mice babies making the noise. And so they were like, so then we knew we really had to get rid of it. And so they were like, we got rid of it that night.

[00:33:27] And so even that, like this whole, right? Like the whole thing. From the time my friend came to faith to the time her family came to faith, even now, you know, it’s been four years. This is a long story of, of little steps, little by little taking off amulets from around their necks and their arms of taking down that temple of, of remembering Jesus through sacred heart, Jesus duct tape to the wall. So it’s been, it’s, it absolutely has been a step by step situation.

[00:33:57] Jess: Yeah. I love how that ties into what you were saying earlier about how you’re kind of like riding the wave a little bit. And it’s, it feels like it was almost like a little bit of a slow wave. Right. You’re sort of like in our very American, like, let’s get it done.

[00:34:10] Let’s take care of the tasks. Right. Let’s like, yeah, let’s do the thing. That’s kind of how we want to work, but God’s wave is sometimes so much slower, but it ends up being almost sort of tsunami ish, it sounds like, in the ways that it just has transformed this family’s, not just their life, but just their entire understanding of the world.

[00:34:31] And so it’s really cool how you’ve. Sort of taking a backseat to that almost, and just really not trying to make your own agenda or your own timing of it, but you just had to allow the Lord to work when he saw fit.

[00:34:48] Elyse: Yeah, it’s, it’s the best. I think early on in our time on the field, when we were doing like discovery Bible studies with people, people would say stuff that was completely wrong.

[00:35:00] After, you know, reading something in scripture and they’d be like, Oh, this means that Jesus and Mary are the same. And we’d be like, ah, you know, and you’d your, you know, my instinct would be like, no, no, no. Let me explain what’s really happening here. But what we found is that if we would just let it sit like, okay, why do you think that?

[00:35:19] Or what about if we go back and just reread just this story and. I know you’ve heard this other story from this other thing, but what if we just focused on this? And there would be like sometimes two and three weeks when they still hadn’t got it. And it was making me so stressed out. And I’d look at my husband and be like, are you sure we shouldn’t tell them?

[00:35:38] I feel like we should tell them. And then the more they read scripture, they go, Oh, Oh, wait, now I get it. Yeah. Yeah. I remember a couple of weeks ago when we thought that such and such was the truth, that’s, that’s not what they were talking about and just watching the Holy Spirit and the word of God work together.

[00:35:55] We just found it to be so much more It would stick, it would stick in people’s minds and hearts so much better than if we just went, okay, here are points a, b, and c you need to memorize these and put them into action by next week. We just found that if, if the spirit of God was revealing it, they were going.

[00:36:14] Oh, this is the truth. And I see now. And so I think that’s been the same with this family. Even this you know, this uncle he’s he makes paratha on the street, which is a fried bread. That’s his job. And he told me that after he started following Jesus, he made a paratha every morning. The first paratha he made, he set it aside for Jesus.

[00:36:36] And I know that in our Western hearts, we might go, wait, no, don’t, that’s what you would do for the gods. Like, don’t do that for Jesus. He doesn’t need that, you know, that whole thing. But I just began to see it as like, Oh man, this is this, these are the first fruits. Like this is, this is his thing he wants to give.

[00:36:53] And over time, what ended up happening was, you know, he said, I’m still, still making my project for Jesus every day. And one day he said, I had a a man who was really hungry came and he asked me if I would give him a free paratha. And he said, I had just made that paratha for Jesus. And he said, but I thought maybe I should give, give it to this man.

[00:37:16] And he looked at me just kind of concerned. Like. Was that okay that I did that? Even though I’d set it aside for Jesus and to be able to go to scripture and show him that Jesus said, when I was hungry, you fed me when I was thirsty, you gave me water to drink. And the whole family was like, Oh man, dad, we’re so sorry.

[00:37:39] Because apparently they had just like guilted him earlier in the day. What you gave away Jesus is fried bread. And so it was so cool to go. Actually, this is absolutely the scriptural thing to do. And I kind of saw him like kind of puff out his chest a little bit like, okay, yeah, okay. Your old dad knows a little something, but it took time.

[00:37:59] And even though I wanted to say, no, don’t do that. To watch him figure out what he could do with that bread that was meant for Jesus. Right. Like that’s exactly the whole deal. And for him to understand that and now to do it every day is super, super cool.

[00:38:15] Matt: It just shows we can trust the Holy Spirit to lead people into the truth. If we’re proclaiming the gospel that we don’t have to try to fix every error or every misunderstanding and that he’s at work. Yeah, absolutely. Even when it, when it seems like there’s a need for more clarification. So that’s cool. So can you tell us a little bit about what’s happening now with this family and, and what it, what it looks like for them to follow Jesus?

[00:38:43] Elyse: Yeah. It’s so interesting. There was a really big festival about 10 days ago that is celebrated in their state, like more than any of the other holidays, this is the one and in the gully where they live, they bring in a huge idol. It’s, it’s massive, right? It’s like. 15 feet tall and all the people in this gully, because they’re all kind of from the same state.

[00:39:09] They’re all from the same location. They live near each other. And so even though I know their faith is genuine and that they love Jesus, I was just feeling, I was feeling stressed about it. You just hear the music blaring all night long for nine nights in a row. You have all of these people fasting and praying and worshiping these other gods.

[00:39:31] And it’s dark. And so I, I went to go visit them for our regular Bible study. And when I walked in a lot of the other, I’ve, I’ve gotten to know their neighbors over time. And a lot of the neighbors saw me and they were like, Oh, did you come for our special like God celebration? And I was like, no, I just came to see auntie and uncle.

[00:39:50] And they’re like, okay. So we go in and we’re sitting down and the music is blaring and you can hardly hear each other talk because it’s just so loud and everybody’s screaming and yelling and chanting. And the auntie looked at me and goes, we used to be just like that. We used to think that that was the answer.

[00:40:10] She said, I just feel, I feel so sad. I feel so sad that they think that’s the answer. And so I said, I know auntie, and that’s why we’ve got to tell him. And she goes, well, you know, I’ve been trying. And so it’s just been, it’s been cool to see them continue to grow in their faith and to actually fully leave that behind.

[00:40:28] Because even in my mind, I don’t know that I would have faulted them at all. If they had just like hung out on the outskirts, like we’ve done this for 62 years, we’re just going to watch or something like that because there’s community and camaraderie and history and culture. And they decided not to, they decided to totally sit it out this year.

[00:40:47] And that was, that was incredible. They’ve also been sharing the gospel with people they work with and neighbors. I’ve had the chance to meet several of their neighbors and share with them, actually, whenever they bring neighbors, I go, you don’t want to hear from me, I just tell them like auntie and uncle, you guys have.

[00:41:04] a hundred testimonies and they’re like, yeah, we do. And so I just kind of help facilitate them telling their friends about Jesus and how he has revealed himself to them.

[00:41:14] Matt: That’s amazing. Yeah. It’s so cool to see what church planting looks like when it’s full circle from someone coming into the family of God.

[00:41:25] And then. Being able to share the gospel with others in their community. I mean, that’s what this is all about. It definitely doesn’t look like what church planting looks like in this country or maybe even in other countries or another cultural context, but it’s clear that the Holy Spirit’s at work.

[00:41:40] Elyse: One of the things that my husband always says somebody told him years ago was that when you do church. You sometimes make disciples, but when you make disciples, you always get church. And so I think if we can have in our, our minds that the goal is disciples who make disciples and that’s what makes up the church and not the other way around, right? Like, it is investing in those relationships and teaching them to share with others that eventually plants the church or builds the church. And so that’s been hugely encouraging for us.

[00:42:17] Matt: Well, Elyse, can you share with us maybe a book or a podcast or music or anything that’s been kind of challenging you lately?

[00:42:26] Elyse: Yeah. I have thoroughly enjoyed Eugene Peterson’s memoir called The Pastor . You know, Eugene Peterson is the one that did the message version and he’s written heaps, heaps of books.

[00:42:37] But it’s just his stories through his life and how God really. grew him as a pastor. And I think as I read through that book this past year, you know, when you’re doing all of the like missionary training things people teach you to be a good evangelist, to be a good disciple maker. But there’s not a whole lot of talk about all the pastoring.

[00:43:01] That you’re going to do all the shepherding of hearts that you’ll do. And so I think reading through his memoir and seeing the way that he shepherded people so well, and looking at our lives here in the city and the way that I think we’ve been called the shepherd people for long periods of time, right?

[00:43:20] Like, like this whole story has taken a long time, but just walking with people through the really good. The miraculous, the incredible and through the really dark and really hard things, the loss, the grief, the shame, the guilt. And so I think the pastor has just been really on my heart this past year and really been encouraging me to be a better shepherd of hearts.

[00:43:43] And so I’ve been encouraging a lot of my friends that want to move overseas to read that book, because it turns out you’re going to be doing a lot of pastoring wherever you’ll end up.

[00:43:54] Jess: So excited that we got to share Elyse’s story with y’all. I hope you were as encouraged as I was. If you’re interested in hearing just a little bit more, maybe kind of a glimpse into what everyday life and ministry looks like for Elyse, do definitely check out our show notes at the bottom for our bonus episode.

[00:44:11] Matt: Yeah. Also in the show notes we have a link to the previous podcast. Episode with Elyse and we also have a link. I thought I’d put in there for a little video We created several years ago. That’s kind of an introduction to Hinduism. It’s from our world views curriculum for children But it’s so simple and so understandable I think it’s worth watching as an adult to get a broad overview of really what it means to to be a Hindu person Also, I’ll put a link to the bonus story and to the book that Elyse mentions toward the end of our conversation.

[00:44:44] Jess: Thanks for following us on this episode of the Relentless Pursuit podcast. Our goal is to make missions accessible to show that it’s not just reserved for elite super Christians. If you want to be involved, just go to pioneers. org slash start and answer a few questions. We have a team who would love to help you discern your calling and what your next steps might be.

[00:45:03] Matt: At Pioneers, we love to partner with local churches and send teams to people groups with little or no access to the gospel. Keep up with what God is doing by following us on Instagram. Facebook X, and YouTube all at pioneers USA, one word or visit pioneers. org. Thanks for listening.

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